Hey Dann – I think I tend to agree with what you have said here but would add this…

First, I think there may be some difference here in the American system of theological education and the British/European way. For example, every theological PhD program I have checked into here (ie, US) requires German while I seem to remember you saying that Durham, which is British, (you are with Univ of Durham, right? If that’s wrong tell me) hadn’t required this of you (if this has changed let me know and I’m sorry). Also, it seems that the British schools value an M.A. more while most schools I’ve checked here mention the M.A., MDiv, or an equivalent as the required degree for admission into a PhD program. What I would say is that of someone does a M.A. be sure to do a thesis track (IMO). I did the non-thesis M.A. at Wayland. This was mainly because I couldn’t get away from work to make it down to Lubbock where they were offering the seminars (never understood why they didn’t offer more at the main campus). If I could have made the seminars I would have done the thesis option in a heartbeat. The result is, even though I did a lot of extra volunteer research, w/o a thesis my M.A. was not enough. Hence the reason why I got the MDiv at Logsdon.

Second, seminary degrees have the rep for being practical and many take this to mean, “unacademic” in the sense of academically lacking. But this is not always the case. It depends on the seminary. For example I think Princeton Theological Seminary has a pretty good academic rep while Southwestern Bapt Theo Seminary (yes, I am naming names) has suffered greatly academically in the last few years. I know my own experience with SWBTS was disappointing to say the least. Even when we left SWBTS to go back to WBU, one of my profs at SWBTS told me that academically I was making a good choice. And from my experience at Logsdon, I would say that it has a very good academic quality (although I did not have to take a lot of stuff because I transferred a bunch in). And my time at Logsdon helped me clarify and narrow my research interests. Also, Fuller Theological Seminary is a seminary that has the size to offer everything from just the practical to the academically rigorous, depending on what program one does.

Third, (related to the above) we have to consider a sort of third option that has sprung up, at least in the U.S., besides just the university and the free standing denominational seminary. Usually these things are called some sort of a “Divinity School” (like Vanderbilt or Duke) or a “School of Theology” (like Illiff in Denver) and sometimes they are called a seminary, like Logsdon. The interesting thing about all these is that they are connected to a university (as is the case with Logsdon) offering M.A. as well as the MDiv (w/ the same profs teaching the M.A. and MDiv classes) degrees. These places seem to me to be sort of a hybrid between a seminary and university. I think it is in these places that the MDivs are more academically rigorous, maybe due to the connection with their parent universities.

I have sort of taken the long scenic route toward doing a PhD. We intentionally delayed getting into a program somewhere so that Christie could do her chaplaincy residency. But for the last couple of years I have been thinking intensely about where to apply – but I have to admit that none of the SBC seminaries are even on the list (for various reasons). Pretty much all the schools I have looked at are either universities/graduate schools (like Wheaton) or some sort of divinity school/school of theology attached to a university. My preferred choice right now is Iliff School of Theology which is connected to the University of Denver (a Methodist school). One of the reasons I am attracted to it is because it has a rep for being very diverse (while I realize many conservative types would just say that’s code for liberal). I have spent my whole educational career in Baptist (BGCT except for 2 yrs at SWBTS) schools and I wouldn’t exchange that for anything. Its not that I’m ready to cash in my Baptist heritage (I’m definitely not and I will probably apply to Baylor). I am ready to not just read about other views but to live among them and interact with them. Illif seems like a good place to do that. Do you have any other suggestions for me to consider?

I think you are right that schools of theology are less defined but I think that because most divinity schools started out as schools of theology alongside the school of business, school of fine arts, school of social sciences, and so on. Most of these schools of theology initially offered MAs and some of the larger universities PhDs. However, many of them sought to offer an MDiv and “restructured” the school of theology into a divinity school often times to accommodate ATS accreditation I think. I think it is also interesting that much of the proliferation of divinity schools is occurring in the void left by the struggles of many of the freestanding denominational seminaries. I think this is precisely what is happening in Baptist circles. Now the way the Truett/Baylor relationship works you can’t actually do a PhD through Truett, though you can do a DMin. Of course Baylor offered an MA and PhD long before Truett came along through the Baylor religion dept (this is an interesting quirk of both Baylor and WBU – they call it a “religion dept” where other universities call it a “school”). The MDiv and DMin are offered through Truett and from what I have gathered are both academically rigorous (yes, even the DMin). Since Baylor/Truett have the size to do so though, I don’t think that professors do as much teaching in both. I think that Truett pretty much has its own faculty. As far as Logsdon goes there is the Logsdon School of Theology which handles the B.A. and M.A. degrees and Logsdon Seminary which handles the MDiv, MAFM, and now a DMin degree. But professors at the Masters levels tend to teach in both M.A. and MDiv classes. And I was very pleased with the academics at Logsdon. In fact, most of the courses I took were based on a seminar method (especially the theology classes) even though MDiv courses are not strictly seminar classes.

I have considered Durham. The main advantage to me, from what I understand, is that one does not have to complete more coursework but goes straight to work on the dissertation. While this is attractive to me the main issue is not being sure how I would pay for it. An advantage of Baylor is that they give a full ride and graduate assistantships to everyone they take. Illif gives tuition wavers for their students as well as assistantships. And if there is anything left uncovered an advantage of a university, or a seminary/divinity school connected to a university, is that you have access to better financial aid and even federal aid.

Illif is definitely on my list of places to apply. Dr. Meeks speaks well of their quality as did my profs at Logsdon. The main draws for me (besides being in Colorado) are threefold. 1) Their PhD is in Theology, Philosophy, and Cultural Theory and seems like it would fit my interest in postmodernism and philosophical hermeneutics. 2) Carl Raschke is there and I would definitely like to study with him. 3) it is a joint degree in conjunction with the University of Denver and carries with it better financial aid as well as using professors from both UofD and Illif. Plus it is a very diverse. As far as my area of specialization I want to work within Trinitarian theology. Realizing that further revisions will be made I am leaning towards doing my dissertation on something having to do with a Trinitarian application of narrative theology and hermeneutics.

As far as practical matters I am all too aware, and especially with how tight money is right now have been fretting about them a bit. As far as someplace in Houston, I have looked at Rice University’s PhD but am not near as excited about it as I am other places. I’m not sure I’d be able to do what I want to there. Illif would require a move but I wouldn’t complain (Denver can’t be worse than Houston!).